posted April 03, 2003 08:30 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by James Friel:
Not only was GA a cover feature for several years in the '40s, as Owen's links show, but he's been starring in his own solo title (with a couple years off while he was dead) for 15 years now.

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Sure, but I was disputing Blue Tracer's judgment:

"i would place Green Arrow as the joint top priority Silver Age character that has not yet been archived"

Green Arrow was not a cover feature during the Silver Age.

Jim Davis

posted April 03, 2003 12:39 PM               

The fact that Green Arrow should start with Golden Age stories does nothing to alter the fact that he is Silver Age by perception.

Aquaman too is a character that is Silver Age despite having GA beginnings.

posted April 03, 2003 01:50 PM               

In the past i've posted about my GA/SA priority split.

To briefly reiterate - i believe and the facts bear me out so far, that when it comes to archiving Golden Age DC characters (All American/National and not including Quality or Fawcett), archival priority goes to the JSA characters. At some point which we've not yet experienced, when Sandman, Dr Fate etc have been done, we may see a character such as Guardian or Shining Knight archived before the original Atom.

At that point a decision would have been made on aesthetic/art/creator concerns. However in the interim, i expect to see Hawkman, Sandman and Dr Fate as the next GA archives kicking off - all JSA characters.

In the Silver Age we have seen similar rules apply to the JLA. HOWEVER, this hasn't been quite so stringent as with the JSA/GA characters and other non JLA related characters have been archived or will be, such as Doom Patrol and Teen Titans.

On the whole however, the JLA priority applys and i include Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman in this as examples of continuous publication. Characters in current continuity percieved as Silver Age but with their origins in the Golden Age. Then came SA GL, FLASH, HAWKMAN, ATOM.

The only point of departure from this JLA continous publication character archiving has so far been Aquaman. It was the belief of many posters - myself i am indifferent for reasons i'll soon explain - that like Superman, Batman and WW, AQUAMAN should have started from the beginning.

However several factors apply that made TDCPTB start a SA archive - one of which is a relatively clear line of seperation based along perhaps the old EARTH ONE AND TWO SPLIT. Another is the fact that Aquaman's Silver Age material is much more weighty than Green Arrows.

My belief is that Green Arrow should be started like the big three were from the beginning and that along the line a decision to make a Silver Age archive could be made.

posted April 03, 2003 02:25 PM            

Greean Arrow was born as a heavy hitter, getting dozens of covers on More Fun, a spot in the Seven Soldiers, and a secondary strip in World's Finest. In the first 2 years (Nov '41 to Oct '43), GA had 302 pages in 26 stories, with 15 covers.

Aquaman in the same period had 206 pages in 22 stories with no covers. Stictly filler.

Fast forward 20 years. In the period from Nov 1961 to Oct 1963, Green Arrow had joined the Justice League, and had been reduced to a mere 6 pages in World's Finest. That strip would end a few months later, leaving GA in the JLA only. Speedy, like Green Arrow had been in the JLA, would be ignored when the Teen Titans are formed.

Aquaman, meanwhile, had also joined the Justice League (as a founder), was in his own magazine, and had a secondary strip, first in Detective, then in World's Finest. The secondary strip would end in a few months. Aquaman would continue to appear in the JLA, and Aqualad would become a founding member of the Teen Titans.

Clearly, Green Arrow's best days are closer to the early days, while Aquaman's come much, much later. Also, by the time of the Atlantean origin in Adventure #260, Aquaman had begun to change into a very different character from the one seen in 1941. With the addition of the Atlantean elements, Aquaman (or more importantly, the writers) was hypercharged. Success was just around the corner. Green Arrow, meanwhile, was still "Batman with gimmicky arrows". A perception made worse by Batman's declining status in the same period.

posted April 03, 2003 02:45 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by CMCINTYRE3600:
I guess, depending on how you look at it, you can say that GA and J'onn J'onnz aren't the only classic JLAers not to have Archives. You could also include Superman and Wonder Woman, depending on your point of view. Those who concider Green Arrow or Aquaman to be primarily silver agers might also concider the SA Wonder Woman and Superman to be different characters from their GA personas, and hence to be Archiveless. Notice that the Batman of the JLA already has an Archive of his own.
Chris

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posted April 03, 2003 04:58 PM               

What this meant was instead of possible obscurity for Atom - a feature with not the greatest art and stories, he was instantly guaranteed his future place in comics history over the likes of Sargon or Guardian and once the JSA were revived, Atom's early revival coincided. Another byproduct was that DC chose to update the Atom in the Silver Age in a version that became more popular comparitively than the original.

For the JLA characters, they were quite simply the most popular solo characters at the time so they ended up being JLA members.

posted April 03, 2003 08:14 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by BlueTracer:

However the two features from the main anthologys rule meant that some characters made it into the JSA because of title placement. I.E Atom made it into the JSA because he was from All American and he made it in over possibly more popular at the time features who ranked 3rd in their anthology.

What this meant was instead of possible obscurity for Atom - a feature with not the greatest art and stories, he was instantly guaranteed his future place in comics history over the likes of Sargon or Guardian and once the JSA were revived, Atom's early revival coincided. Another byproduct was that DC chose to update the Atom in the Silver Age in a version that became more popular comparitively than the original.

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posted April 03, 2003 11:24 PM               

I've read in the past that the "Silver Age" GA is thought of as beginning with the Jack Kirby issues. Thanks to Jack Schiff, Kirby was booted from DC and GA returned to his previous 3rd-rate status. Otherwise, there COULD have been a real distinction between the 50's & 60's eras, instead of breaking neatly into 2 periods (before and after Adams).

"I also really like the Arrowplane concept (at that point the car was the Arrowplane -- they weren't separate vehicles)."

Oh wow-- really? THE SPIRIT also had a car that flew via fold-out wings. (Who asked Ollie "Did you ever have an original idea?" heehee)

posted April 03, 2003 11:51 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by profh0011:
So GA's series stopped altogether in 1964? Too bad-- otherwise, HE might have turned up on the SUPER-FRIENDS cartoon along with the "big 4".

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Ahhh...Green Arrow DID appear on "Superfriends" (the Wendy and Marvin era). He only appeared once. According to Scott McCullars site the design for the (GA)outfit was by Alex Toth for the Hanna Barbera artists. It is actually the Neal Adams design, but has a uniqueness to it.I tried to find pic, but the site was down. I'll check back, though.
Chris

posted April 04, 2003 03:16 PM               

That was my point.

Some years back, I read that Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman & Green Arrow were the ONLY 5 superheroes who were published continually from the Golden Age to the Silver Age. I was surprised to hear about Aquaman & Green Arrow, but then they'd both been back-up features (in DC books; ALL the AA superheos had been canned!!). This "explained" why Aquaman, a comparitively "obscure" character (next to the "big 3") got his own cartoon show in 1967, and why he was one of the 4 main heroes when THE SUPER FRIENDS debuted several years later.